Thoughts

"Long_Voyager94" (yourenotavalidusername)
12/24/2019 at 10:12 • Filed to: thoughts

So in the 12k miles we’ve put on the new van since we got it in July I’ve came to some conclusions.

Overall, it’s a great vehicle that suits our needs perfectly without being a bore to drive.

The biggest glaring issue: Lack of low end grunt. Seriously, the Pentastar is a decent engine that makes good noises, but holy hell is this thing gutless under 4k rpms.

So after some research, of course NO ONE makes an intake for the Grand Caravan, but Charger/Challenger/300/200 guys are gaining 5-10hp, but more importantly 15-25 ft-lbs of torque with a simple intake resonator delete and a PUG lower intake manifold.

That 15-25ft-lbs of torque combined with the quicker throttle response may be exactly what I’m looking for without needing to do anything drastic.

This is my stock airbox setup:

I found one guy who had a custom CAI made, but he’s no longer in contact with the builder so no dice there:

So I’m not exactly sure how to proceed at this point. I’d like something legit and clean looking.

DISCUSSION (30)

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 10:14

Will the parts from 300 etc fit the van?

Long_Voyager94 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
12/24/2019 at 10:16

Intake wise no, the vans run their very own intake design.

The PUG lower intake manifold is on the 18+ Durangos and is a direct bolt on though.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 10:21

I’m a little confused about the CAI, does your intake not already draw cold air from the factory? Or are you less concerned about the temp and more about restricting airflow with all those bends from the factory?

I know it’s not your usual MO but have you considered nitrous?

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 10:33

I’m really surprised you find the 3.6 feels under-powered . My 2014 feels like it pulls a lot harder in the 2500-4000 range then either the 3.3 or 3.8 powered caravans I’ve driven before.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 10:44

I have a solution, but it might be a bit overkill... Which is to say, the right amount of kill.

Kinja'd!!!

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 10:46

Turbocharger through the hood?

Michael > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 11:42

Can you fit a supercharger?

Nick Has an Exocet > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 11:51

I wouldn’t delete the resonator unless you had Dyno numbers to back up the gains. Those are usually designed to create pressure waves almost like a velocity stack.

Have you done a high flow air filter yet? I would start with that. It’s going to be major surgery to do something that looks nice and functions well - and even then, you won’t see much gains.

From what I’ve read, the best band for your buck is the PUG lower intake manifold.

Can you convert these for flex fuel? If so, you could run e85 and get some extra power out of that (though if it's just DI, you'll be fuelling limited).

Long_Voyager94 > Nick Has an Exocet
12/24/2019 at 11:59

They don’t make a “high flow” for these other than K&N, which you couldn’t pay me to use.

The resonator delete by itself only nets a couple HP, but gains 8-12 ft-lbs in the low/midrange, which is exactly where this motor needs power.

The PUG is definitely on the list.

This is already setup for e85, but I notice no power difference and a big mpg hit on e85, so I stay away from it.

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 12:08

So the corrugated hose can restrict airflow a bit vs. a smooth hose, but the biggest problem (having just had the intake off) is that the entry into the intake points towards the firewall - so you need a couple of bends to make the turn from the intake. Switching to a silicone hose between the filter box and the intake might help. But the biggest intake losses happen at bends in the system.

If you delete the stock filter box you might be able to sneak in a 300C/Charger aftermarket item? I’d have to check but the arragement seems to be 90 degrees from the van install - with most items having the same location. I have both - so if you need me to check I can.

Long_Voyager94 > I Will Always Be The Honey Badger
12/24/2019 at 12:17

It pulls like crazy once it hits 4k rpms. Below 4k, it’s a dog.

I’m used to the older 3.3/3.8s that have all their power/torque down low, which makes them more enjoyable in regular use. The newer 3.3/3.8s had a different top end design that shifted the powerband higher in the rpms, so they feel doggy as well.

Long_Voyager94 > Michael
12/24/2019 at 12:17

Can I, probably.

Am I going to, no.

Long_Voyager94 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
12/24/2019 at 12:20

The problem is the restriction more than the temp.

It’s the section between the airbox and the throttle body that is the biggest restriction. Realistically, I would delete that “resonator” and hard pipe from the TB to the factory airbox, but it is 5+” tube at the airbox and only 3" at the TB, so that becomes troublesome.

For sake of ease I’d just replace the whole intake with a different setup that pulls from the same spot.

Long_Voyager94 > someassemblyrequired
12/24/2019 at 12:23

That would actually be excellent!

Realistically, I’d like to delete the resonator between the airbox and the throttle body, but it’s 5+” pipe at the airbox and 3" at the throttle body, so that creates issue.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 12:24

I would start with the lower intake then (considering its within budget) and see if it makes enough of a difference.

Could an exhaust shop fab you a CAI? Basically a straight pipe with welded curved sections and a cone filter on top of it plus whatever braketry you need. Looking at what they charge for custom exhausts, it should be less than $100.

Long_Voyager94 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
12/24/2019 at 12:27

I was thinking on checking out that option as well. There’s a couple good exhaust places around that could probably fab me up something.

The PUG is definitely going to happen as it seems to shift the power/torque curves down from what I’ve found so far. I doubt it will be enough by itself, but it’s definitely the 1st step.

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 12:37

I wonder if some of that is just the stubborn electronic throttle behavior that pretty much all of Chrysler’s products share. The throttle response just isn’t nearly what the old cable operated ones have. I find if i’m in a passing situation at part throttle pulling from the aforementioned 2500-3500 or 4000 rpm it feels strong but it seems like it takes a few ticks to get it self sorted out and actually open the throttle to where I want it.

Long_Voyager94 > I Will Always Be The Honey Badger
12/24/2019 at 12:46

I find the response to be pretty decent really. It did take a bit for the trans to tune for a more aggressive driver, that was pretty sluggish when we got it, but now the trans slaps down nicely, it just doesn’t seem to pull hard until it hits 4k.

You gotta remember though, I’m used to my V6s pulling hard from idle to around 5k and dying off after that, so this “hp war” high end power crap kinda drives me nuts.

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 13:15

I’ll try to pop the cover off on the Charger and do some basic measurements when I get back from holiday travels. Remind me if I forget.

The easiest way to solve the reduction problem is probably to use a trumpet/velocity stack with a universal filter. The airbox configuration on the vans is kind of jammed in, so there’s a lot of twists and turns prior to the filter, which also restricts flow. The trumpet accomplishes the reduction in a more efficient way, allowing more airflow vs. a step between the two diameters.

Not sure if you are OK with losing the stock airbox, but if that’s ok that’s probably the easiest approach.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 13:17

Buy a motorcycle, and get your rocks off on that. Better investment than trying to make a minivan exciting.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 16:26

Of course in the long run an Eaton blower is the best option....

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 17:06

Sometimes it’s better to start fresh, and you clearly know what you’re doing

Nick Has an Exocet > Long_Voyager94
12/24/2019 at 23:00

I dunno. I see people claiming the PUG is 10 ft-lbs.

I think you’ve just got the wrong engine and/ or vehicle to mod. That happens. I looked into modding a pentastar and was really disappointed by what’s available.

Long_Voyager94 > Nick Has an Exocet
12/26/2019 at 06:54

I always have the “wrong” vehicle to mod, makes it that much more satisfying when you beat the “right” vehicle with it. The Penta has plenty of aftermarket support, I just need to adapt it to the Grand Caravan.

Long_Voyager94 > someassemblyrequired
12/26/2019 at 06:58

Right now I’d rather not lose the stock airbox. Once the warranty is up, it’s game on.

Long_Voyager94 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
12/26/2019 at 07:00

RIPP makes a supercharger setup for the cars.......

Long_Voyager94 > DipodomysDeserti
12/26/2019 at 07:01

Not when your family enjoys the excitement with you.

In case we haven’t met, I’m Long_Voyager, I enjoy making normal vehicles fun instead of taking the easy way out.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager94
12/26/2019 at 08:09

Please supercharge the van once its out of warranty , it’ll be immensely hilarious to hear whoshing sounds from the grand caravan

Long_Voyager94 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
12/26/2019 at 08:52

Pretty doubtful it’ll ever happen, it would be hella fun though!

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager94
12/26/2019 at 12:19

Sounds right up your alley.

Kinja'd!!!